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  • #48076
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    Time Lord

    @tommo

    so the time lords spend 2 billion years trying to torture information re. the hybrid out of the doctor, he breaks out and apparently confesses almost immediately

    Interesting that. Did he say ‘The hybrid is me’ or ‘The hybrid is Me’ (meaning Ashildr). I still think the hybrid is Clara though, and that is misdirection

    #48072
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    Time Lord

    @delta

    There is a philosophical debate about teleportation that has been explored in sci-fi for decades from Star Trek onwards. Every time someone undergoes it, the ‘original’ is destroyed and conveyed as digital information to be reconstituted at the destination. The uncertainty over this process led Doctor ‘Bones’ McCoy to distrust teleportation.

    If this is your view, then the Doctor hasn’t been the ‘original’ since 1969 when he first teleported.

    #48046
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    Time Lord

    Bloody hell!

    Now, as high concept Episodes go, the Doctor gets condemned to hell for an eternity and riffs on the torment of Tantalus is pretty strong stuff.

    It was an astonishing piece to watch. Lots of callbacks to the Moff era in general, but an awful lot of that surrealness that stuff like Mind Robber, Deadly Assassin and Kinda could generate. I can’t think of any other show that would contemplate doing something like this. My jaw actually sagged when the meaning of the Skulls became clear.

    And to borrow an idea from Sherlock – the Doctors mind palace is a deathtrap filled fortress. Of course that makes sense.

    I still can’t quite get over that. Oh, and Gallifrey!

    #48036
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    Time Lord

    Just on Sarah Dollard, I thought I’d mention I’ve been watching the Sky comedy ‘You me and the Apocalypse’ and, while it’s not perfect it has raised a few laughs with a very varied cast. I particularly enjoyed Rob Lowe’s turn as a priest. And Pauline Quirke lusting after him. She’s on the writing team and credited with episode 5.

    #48034
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    Time Lord

    @bendubz11

    Oooh – I’ve never come across that correlation with suits. The only stylistic theory I’ve come across with 10 was that his hair height indicated his mood. Happy? Quifftastic! Sad? Flat and plastered down. 🙂

    #48032
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    Time Lord

    @lewis97

    I commend you on the trouser research. It reminds me of @juniperfish and her dedication to bow tie colours. Her theory that they were linked to Time travel (red and blue shift) was actually confirmed by the costume designer after his departure.

    #48031
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    Time Lord

    Just on the Soul question, @juniperfish pointed out in the early days of the site (on the Faces of the Doctor thread) the rise in references to soul under Moffat. It doesn’t particularly concern me because it has been used in the old series and as a concept is mixed up with the animating principle and consciousness, not the particular everlasting soul concept of religion. Take this from The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe:

    Describing trees:
    DOCTOR: They’re pure life force. Souls, if you like.

    And the fate of said trees:
    DOCTOR: The life force of the whole forest has transmuted itself into a sub-etheric waveband of light, which can exist as a
    (He is stopped by a Look.)
    DOCTOR: The souls of the trees are out among the stars, and they’re shining, very happy.

    I think @ichabod asked about the BG years, and The Savages with William Hartnell sees The Doctor’s life force being referred to as soul, and there are a few other instances with Troughton, Pertwee and Baker. Image of the Fendahl is the last that comes to mind. The Fendahl consumes life force. The Doctor agrees with the Witch who helps them that the thing ‘wants her soul’.

    I think the Doctors decision to upload River to CAL was based on responding to his later self’s wishes @juniperfish and given her convoluted story may not be at an end (and her echo came in very useful in Name of the Doctor) the future version may have his own perspective. Even so though, uploading to the Gallifreyan Matrix was the natural end for Time Lords. A good foreshadowing of her nature.

    #48030
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    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    I had a feeling you weren’t quite feeling it for this series (or the last with a couple of exceptions). A bit like the way you talk about the Eccleston year? If it’s any consolation, while I appear to be enjoying it more than you, I don’t think Peter Capaldi has topped the peculiar and mad personification of the Eleventh in my eyes.

    The one aspect I think he is extraordinary at is monologues and keeping my attention. This goes back to Into the Dalek and Listen, and have only increased this series. He is really good at that stuff. So I’m particularly interested by the sound of tonight’s episode.

    Right now, I’m not even sure I want to watch next Saturday’s episode. 🙁

    With your acting background I can’t help but think you’ll watch it just to see if they can pull off an entire 50 minutes of Doctor single hander. The nearest they came to that was the Matrix in Deadly Assassin. I’m hooked by the prospect.

    Just on Clara’s fate, I don’t think I agree with the assessment that she couldn’t be the Doctor. She was too good at it in some regards. Reckless it may have been, but the desire to save her ‘companion’ and agree to take the fall echoes Five and Peri, and Ten and Wilf. The Doctor just has that get out of jail free card. Regeneration.

    #48029
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    Time Lord

    I’ll have a pint of Hobgoblin please.

    I don’t know how it is around your place, but the wind is lashing rain against the window and it’s pitch dark here. The perfect night for a creepy episode, so I hope SM has obligingly written one in anticipation. Timey Wimey.

    I should be around a bit more tonight as my internet hasn’t been throttled down, which happened last weekend.

    #47446
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    Time Lord

    @hudsey

    Oooh. I’ll nip over in a second and have a look.

    @juniperfish

    I’m guessing Time Lords. I think a lot of us thought that Ashildr had gained knowledge of the Time Lords from Missy. What if Missy is acting as an agent of the Time Lords?

    Looking at CapDoc in this, I can’t help but remember the furious eyebrows in Day of the Doctor.

    #47445
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    Time Lord

    OK, that was….startling.

    A couple of things occur that I’ll blab on about so the meat of the post doesn’t show up in the activity thread.

    Wasn’t it hilarious that casting had managed to find an Eric Pickles look-a-like to play the ‘Earth normalised’ Sontaran? I laughed.

    I’m guessing most of the usual internet blarney will mention Harry Potter, but there are an awful lot of nods here to Neil Gaiman’s Neverwhere. Gaiman has had an awful lot of references this series.

    I mentioned Janus in connection with Osgood a couple of weeks ago. The keys of Janus would make a great Doctor Who title, but they are an instrument of the Hierophant in Tarot. And the Janus was released by a key.

    OK – Clara and her fate. Emotionally involving and well played by all. Jenna superb. Peter terrifying. Maisie actually looking appalled at the ramifications of her choices.

    Astonishing stuff, but amazing that this was penned by a newcomer to the writing team. This is integral to the arc and feels like the Utopia to Last of the Time Lords in season 3. Hopefully SM will exceed that particular trilogy over the next two parts.

    It does feel like a false ending in a way though. As @bluesqueakpip says “I don’t quite believe it”. The story of Clara leaves questions unanswered. It reminds me of God Complex in Series 6. A false ending for Amy and Rory that in that case that paid off two episodes later (and ultimately 6 beyond that).

    Just glorious stuff though. So much to pick through.

    #47418
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    Time Lord

    @spider

    It’s as well to remind people on the spoiler front as we approach the end of the series, and I’ll apologise myself for using the title of tonights episode late last night. I’ve given myself a stern talking to.

    I’d had a few beers on my night out. 🙂

    #47417
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    Time Lord

    On the hybrid issue, I’m pretty convinced that the eventual realisation of that Plot is that it is nothing to fear, despite its build up as something terrible. It goes back to my thoughts on what it is to live in a multicultural society and the place we find ourselves currently in.

    This is going to be pretty long as it’s series to date, so apologies in advance.

    We start the series with the Doctor having a party in a fairytale castle with lots of references to Arthur and the Grail. Pure mythology and a story of how Arthur united the tribes of ancient Britons under noble and just laws.

    A myth, and one that has, on occasion, been seized on by the extreme right with their obsessions about racial purity. They are a bit like Davros in that regard. Whose entire shtick is based on Nazi philosophy. As the Doctor says:

    The Doctor: Davros is the Child of War. A war that wouldn’t end. A thousand years of fighting ’till nobody could remember why. So Davros, he created a new kind of warrior. One that wouldn’t bother with that question. A mutant in a tank that would never ever stop. And they never did.
    Clara: The Daleks?
    The Doctor: How scared must you be, to seal every one of your own kind inside a tank

    Last season we considered fear as a superpower, this season the dark paths it can lead you down.

    We know the Arthurian legend to be a myth because that period is documented to the extent we know that the Britons were still divided into Kingdoms when the Vikings rocked up and started looting, pillaging, and more importantly settling in the UK. We have no idea of Ashildr’s route. Did she come with the initial Norse settlers? Or did she come via Normandy with William in 1066. Those Vikings who had settled in France to defend against their own kind? We certainly know she fought in the 100 year war to defend against another incursion.

    Largely, the difference is immaterial these days. After a 1000 years does anyone hold any of these distinctions against people anymore? It’s part of our Great British heritage. We remember them, but the differences don’t matter anymore. We’ve been hybridised as a culture so many times. We have Roman and Norse Gods as days of the week.

    We skip forward again and see the Zygons attempting to assimilate on the world. An analogy for so many groups in the multicultural society we live in. With its conflicts and pressure points. A message of tolerance, but above all, breaking the cycle of violence. To strive in hope until, as Osgood says about her status:

    I’ll answer that question on the day it doesn’t matter anymore.

    Skipping forward centuries we find the underwater base. The references to Star Trek perhaps a direct reference to the aims of that series. Deliberately cast to show that humans had gone past the absurd pressure points of the time it was filmed in. Black and Russian members of the crew. Looking at the makeup of the Drum crew we have an afro caribbean Captain saving his deaf second in command and a British Pakistani character offering love advice to British Indian character. A message of hope, because in the face of love (like Osgood for her dead sister) the differences don’t mean a damn.

    And in this episode, even further into the future, we see a hybrid of the IndianJapan cultures. With a Geordie accent. With a trans actor whose gender shouldn’t really matter. Differences that shouldn’t really matter because surely it is the character’s actions that should define them?

    So given what we’ve seen this series, and that the hybridisation or fusion of cultures and people that have led inexorably towards us, do we really think that the hybrid will be archvillain material? Or will they be someone a bit like us? As Missy (the Master is inherently an evil but largely truthful character) said “We’re all hybrids in one way or another”.

    #47371
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    Time Lord

    @bendubz11 @bluesqueakpip

    Sorry for the delay. I’ve spent the evening being entertained by Ed Byrne in a comedy gig.

    I’ve removed that bit in the post. Now to catch-up on stuff before we Face the Raven!

    @saraji

    Put your back into it son. That’s lousy trolling.

    #47312
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    Time Lord

    @lisa

    Well said. I think Clara and Jenna will always hold a place in our affections because it was Christmas 2012 (and her appearance in The Snowmen) that led to The Doctor Who Forum being formed (you can look at The Snowmen forum and see us staggering, drunkenly, into the light of a new dawn). That’s almost three years of debate and cogitating on Clara and her astonishing relationship with The Doctor.

    Whoever our personal favorite companion may be, Clara and Jenna will always be special here.

    #47311
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    Time Lord

    I think the eye booger monster (thanks @drben) objections passed me by, because once you have got past the Adipose (your fat just walks away!) and the total conversion of bodily material to fat in the shape of small cute alien blobs, you are in a mindspace to accept anything! 🙂

    I do think they missed a trick here though. If it turns out this is truly a stand alone episode for this series, then I think they should have broadcast it on Halloween in the place of the first Zygon two parter. I think promoting it as a quirky take on horror movies (like the Amicus films @whisht and I referenced) would have put people in a better mood for it.

    Just on the Halloween subject alone, you could make a case for this referencing Halloween 3: Season of the Witch. It was the one that John Carpenter, bored of the slasher flick they became, sought out Nigel Kneale of Quatermass fame. He came up with a bizarre anti corporation and TV parable that saw a witch in charge of a toy making conglomerate trying to unleash a spell by technomancy.

    Any kid wearing a mask subjected to one of his adverts would convert to your worst nightmares. As Gatiss is a known fan of Kneale’s works, I can’t help but feel this could have been a minor inspiration.


    Also @whisht, that Sandman animation is still brilliant and disturbing stuff.

    #47115
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    Time Lord

    @mudlark

    Many thanks, and hopefully it may. @danmartinuk is very kind to us in that regard and has often referenced us in blog. It continues to be appreciated.

    #47114
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    Time Lord

    I know it’s a bit early to mention Christmas, but I thought I’d highlight something that’s definitely gone on my personal list and it originated from dialogue in a Mark Gatiss episode.

    Remember his Night Terrors, in which the Eleventh Doctor tried to reassure young George?

    When I was your age—about, oo, a thousand years ago—I loved a good bedtime story. The Three Little Sontarans. The Emperor Dalek’s New Clothes. Snow White and Seven Keys to Doomsday, eh? All the classics.

    Well, Penguin are publishing a collection of those ‘Classics’ as Time Lord Fairy Tales, by Justin Richards who knocked out quite a few good books in the Eighth Doctor range. It seems to be getting good reviews with some praise for the sinister edge and giving some of the Tales less than happy endings. Looks lovely as well.

    I genuinely have enjoyed some previous works which have touched on extrapolating the Doctor into old storytelling styles. Things like the Arabian Nights-esque story of how The Doctor trapped Fenric in the flask in the novelization of Curse of Fenric. In a similar style, Paul Magrs novel The Scarlet Empress sees the Eighth Doctor become fascinated by a book called the Aja’ib (wondrous or miraculous one). It leads to some great in jokes as the Doctor recounts the latest exploit he’s read about, declaring it preposterous and not getting it’s about him. It’s actually a great book about the necessity of storytelling in relation to fleeting memory. It also has Iris Wildthyme, which is a bonus. I think storytelling avenues like this are ripe for exploitation by authors who can get the right style.

    Back to fairy tales and just as enticing is the audio book, released next week which features a host of Who actors tackling a story each. I can’t think of anything better than lying in bed on a winter’s night having Dan Starkey narrate The Three Little Sontarans (preferably as Strax), or Tom Baker waxing lyrical. Like a Doctor Who Jackanory (and there lies a big omission – a project like this would have surely benefited from the mighty Bernard Cribbins).

    Here are teasers of the fifteen Tales, and the narrators for the audiobook.

    Little Rose Riding Hood (Rachael Stirling, Ada in Crimson Horror)

    Deep in the woods, Rose is travelling to her grandmother’s cottage. She’s careful to watch out for the Bad Wolf, but what about the strange woodcutter she meets, wearing a black leather jacket? And why does Grandmother suddenly have such sharp teeth?

    The Gingerbread Trap (Samuel Anderson, Danny Pink)

    Lost in a forest, Everlyne and her brother, Malkus, find a house made out of gingerbread and sweets. But the kindly old woman who lives there is not all she first seems – in fact, with her strange metal craft and mysterious barrels of oil, she might not even be human . . .

    The Scruffy Piper (Nicholas Briggs, voice of just about everything)

    Space Station Hamlyn is under siege. Thousands of small metal creatures are flying through space, sent by silver warriors to burrow inside the station. The crew’s only hope is a slightly scruffy-looking stranger, with a recorder and a mysterious blue box . . .

    Helana and the Beast (Pippa Bennett-Warner, Saibra in Time Heist)

    Kept captive in a castle by a terrible beast, Helana befriends the castle’s only other resident – it’s grumpy, grey-haired librarian. Will the Beast and the librarian turn out to be more than meets the eye?

    Andiba and the Four Slitheen (Yasmin Paige, Maria in The Sarah Jane Adventures)

    Out walking in the hills one day, a young woman called Andiba hides when she sees several strange creatures beside an odd metal craft. Can she stop their dastardly plans for the local distillery, before it’s too late?…

    The Grief Collector (Michelle Gomez, Missy!)

    Melina and Varan are childhood sweethearts. Their wedding day should be the happiest of their lives – but when it all begins to go horribly wrong, can they trust a mysterious stranger in a pin-striped suit to set things right?

    The Three Brothers Gruff (Paul McGann, yer actual Eighth Doctor)

    Three brothers are walking home to their village. One brother is very strong, one is very brave, and the third – although weak and small compared to his brothers – is very clever. What will happen when they encounter a short (but fierce) member of a military clone race?

    Sir Gwain and the Green Knight (Andrew Brooke, The Gunslinger, Town Called Mercy)

    The Court of King Halfur is in session, attended by the greatest and bravest knights of the realm, when they have an unexpected visitor. A huge, green warrior clad in reptilian-like armour smashes his way into the chamber – but why does he need their help?

    Garden of Statues (Joanna Page, Elizabeth I)

    Children have always played in the garden of the Big House – though sometimes, the stone statues there seem to move about of their own accord.

    Frozen Beauty (Adjoa Andoh, Martha’s Mum, Francine)

    A spaceship crash-lands on a mysterious planet, the crew frozen in cryogenic suspension, unable to save themselves from the slithering dangers that lurk outside. Can a handsome Space Captain find the sleeping travellers before it’s too late?

    Cinderella and the Magic Box (Ingrid Oliver, Osgood)

    Cinderella has lost all hope of attending the royal ball with her stepmother and sisters, when a strange man in a blue box arrives and begins to grant her every wish. But at the palace, Cinderella soon discovers not all the guests are as noble as they seem . . .

    The Twins in the Wood (Anne Reid, Plasmavore)

    The Emperor of Levithia has been murdered, leaving his two children as heirs to the throne. With treason and traitors around every corner, the children are soon forced to flee into space. What will become of them when they crash-land on a strange planet, full of it’s own surprises?

    The Three Little Sontarans (Dan Starkey, Strax)

    In an epic battle against a lone Rutan, three Sontarans take up very different strategies to defeat their interminable nemesis, once and for all.

    Jak and the Wormhole (Tom Baker, who needs no introduction)

    After burying a strange device on his farm, Jak finds himself whisked away on an incredible adventure. Faced with a mysterious, horned enemy, it’s up to Jak to save the world from total destruction.

    Snow White and the Seven Keys to Doomsday (Sophie Aldred, Ace)

    The planet Winter was once ruled by an evil tyrant who built a Doomsday Machine. When he was defeated, the machine’s seven vital operating keys were hidden across the planet. Now, a villainous queen is plotting to locate the keys, but Snow White is determined to stop her . . .

    All in all, it sounds a treat.

    #47107
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    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I find the easy way to do it is to find the post you want to link to and then click on the number on the top right. This changes the http address in your browser to that of that specific post. Copy that address (ctrl + c) and use the link function in the text box as usual when you format the post, pasting (ctrl + v) when directed to input a web address. It takes you directly to that post.

    Hope that helps.

    #47063
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    I should have possibly mentioned that I made a rare excursion to the G on Saturday, taking Dan’s “Theories even more insane than what’s actually happening” as an invite to bang the drum, as it were.

    The last time I really had an opportunity to do that was in S7b. While this may bring a few ‘one hit’ moaners who don’t particularly get the site ethos, we’ve also pulled more than a few valuable members along the way. Swings and roundabouts. And hey! I got an excited “OOOOOOOOOH!” From @danmartinuk . I may have titivated his fronds. 🙂 Always a pleasure.

    What’s kind of interesting is that the response BTL on the G for this one reminds me of Rings of Ankhaten which got a bit boisterous with a lot of “worst episode ever” comments. Read about it in retrospect these days and most people seem complimentary. Perhaps the Episodes that are constructed differently do need time to bed in?

    Like “In the forest..” Last year I don’t think this is ever going to appeal to everyone, but I think there should be at least one experimental episode per season. This does have a few cheeky subversions which set it apart.

    #47062
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    Time Lord

    @purofilion

    At the moment I’ll leave it up, even if it serves only as a clear example of the lazy minded general Ad hominem attack that plagues other boards.

    If @erebos can actually mount some semblance of a critique without resort to abuse as @kharis suggested, he may win a point or two. If not the delete button awaits.

    As always, I recommend making those who seem to want to troll to work hard for a response. If it becomes too much like hard work they go away. If they genuinely want to talk they will. Never spend as much time on your response as they have on writing the thing in the first place.

    #46947
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    Time Lord

    Question for @janetteb or any other Babylon 5 fan here.

    After callouts to Star Trek earlier in the series I thought ‘Space station’. Everyone is cosplaying Bablyon 5 characters!

    #46945
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @starla

    The signal was embedded at the end. The professor asks if you saw it, and doesn’t it make you tickle, before his collapse begins. The Doctor and the others leave before he can appreciate the plan because they leave without seeing the end of the footage.

    It’s kind of the perfect Penny dreadful/Amicus ending you’d expect from Gatiss.

    #46931
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    I was a bit wary of this because I’m not a big fan of found footage type projects (your Blair Witch and Cloverfields of this world). If I wanted to get a headache and sea sickness from an experience I’d go to a fun Fair.

    Actually though, it didn’t go down that route too much and I didn’t need the motion sickness tablets. On balance I’d congratulate Mark Gatiss on producing something very different from his previous Who work, which simultaneously feels very Mark Gatiss.

    It misses his usual preference of the past to go for a future that echoes the great Sun Makers (in which Pluto sees a privatised remnant of humanity worked to death while being a convenient tax base for an alien corporation) which was also set in this period. Lots of nice background material delivered in an off the cuff way, which I’d suggest it would be good to develop. This could be Marks future touchstone period in the same way the early 50th century became SMs.

    Bethany Black got the gift that keeps on giving in Who terms: A clone part! I liked the cultural mixup in this that leads to the leader of the taskforce having a Geordie accent, Pet.

    One might almost call it well…. A hybrid!

    Or not because this episode does show the signs it was written at the same time as Robot of Sherwood, and held back. It doesn’t strike you as being linked into this series in the same way as every story we’ve seen so far. You could easily see this alongside Mummy on the Orient Express last year.

    Still, the nice ideas and Reece Shearsmith made it worthwhile. The final monologue and disintegrating head will have left a few kids watching with that lovely horror ending feeling.

    #46876
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    Time Lord

    @carbr6

    what kind of stationery do you think he would use?

    Somebody else’s stationery, the thieving git! 🙂

    Seriously, he often uses what’s to hand, like the TARDIS blue paper and envelopes he got from Craig to send his chums an invitation to his death in Series 6.

    He nicked Ministry paper to falsify an introduction letter from the Prime Minister in Curse of Fenric, and jotted a note to Leonardo da Vinci on the back of one of his sketches.

    There was a suggestion in spin off media that he had letterheads for his I.M. Foreman, Scrap Metal Merchant cover while he was on Earth in the Sixties (which would make sense).

    When he got all official at home in The Deadly Assassin, he used blank paper, and signed using his official Prydonian Order seal, screen grab below:

    Doctors note Deadly Assassin

    #46873
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    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    Enjoy your day! Must be an especially frustrating position for Sarah Dollard to be in as she was also at the London Comic Con with SM last month. She hasn’t got a history of Episodes to discuss and her one this series isn’t broadcast till next week so … Spoilers. 😉

    #46690
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    Time Lord

    Hi all,

    There is a nice little interview with Peter Harness here, discussing writing for the show. I’m sure @blenkinsopthebrave will be delighted that his reference to Invasion of the Body Snatchers is confirmed as first and foremost in his mind as he was writing. The 1970s version which may delight @purofilion. Àpparently the inspiration for Amazing Grace. I have to say, I found the 1970s version impacted more on me as well. The isolation and paranoia in an urban environment spoke to me in a way that the invocation of small town America (in the original) could not.

    I’m particularly envious of members like @bluesqueakpip at the moment. Apparently every writer for Series 9 will be at the Doctor Who festival this weekend, which has never happened before. I’m sure that will be a fascinating panel.

    #46624
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    Time Lord

    I didn’t get a chance to post on previous threads, but I found the idea discussed by some that the Knightmare and Nightmare scenario may reference ‘The Nightmare Child’ quite interesting, especially when I had a look at the dialogue that surrounds it.

    The first mention is Stolen Earth/Journey’s End in that Davros’ command ship was seemingly destroyed at the Gates of Elysium after flying into the jaws of the Nightmare Child. He raided the Gates of Heaven and was swallowed by a Nightmare.

    I found the reference in the End of Time even more interesting. The Doctot tells the Master:

    You weren’t there. In the final days of the war. You never saw what was born. But if the time lock’s broken then everything is coming through. Not just the Daleks, but the Skaro Degradations. The Horde of Travesties. The Nightmare Child. The Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres. The war turned into hell! And that’s what you’ve opened. Right above the Earth. Hell is descending.

    OK, one referencing Heaven and Hell. More importantly though, Listen saw the Timelock gone. And if the Timelock is gone then everything is coming back? Perhaps signs and portents of the return of Gallifrey?

    The Daleks? Well, they only ever went briefly.

    The Skaro Degradations? I can’t help but think of the Sewers in Witches Familiar. Mutations stripped from armour, degraded in form and spirit.

    The Could-Have-Been King? The Fisher King with his knowledge of the Time Lords.

    Poetic Licence, but armies of Meanwhiles and Neverweres, I’d see as abstract menaces to the timelines. Distortions to the timelines to introduce things of the imagination. The things that never were. Anachronisms and myths. Vikings with horns. Robin Hood. The Moon is an egg.

    The Nightmare references may point us to Ashildr or something else.

    Not quite sure if anything fits the Horde of Travesties (You could make a pithy reference to The Mire. A Horde who had a reputation that turned out to be a bit of a travesty), but there is still time left obviously.

    Anyone got any different interpretations of this lot?

    #46622
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    Time Lord

    I was thinking, one of the potential ramifications of the Osgood and Zygon relationship if we take it as granted that Zygons can copy her bioprint or memory from other Zygons, is that Osgood is, like Ashildr, a technically immortal character. All it requires is a continuing line of Zygons who are committed to the plans of the originals.

    That actually has a pleasing symmetry, especially for Remembrance Sunday (last Remembrance Sunday we were recovering from Death in Heaven of course). Her memory will remain.

    Just on the Tarot front, while I still like @juniperfish s summation of Osgood as Tempererance, as a being with two Faces I can’t help but think of Janus, the Roman God. In terms of conflict and warfare he saw both the beginnings and endings of conflict with perfect clarity, enabling understanding. The Hierophant in Tarot is often depicted holding a set of keys – a deliberate call out to Janus and his understanding of future/past.

    #46538
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    Time Lord

    I thought that was a nice conclusion to the two parter. Slowing down the pace slightly from the globe trotting first part really worked, and the face off in The Black Archive nicely bookended the initial references to Day of The Doctor.

    It’s tempting to say Capaldi owned it for the power of that final confrontation, but that would be a huge disservice to Jenna Coleman who I thought worked incredibly well as Clara and Bonnie, especially their ‘mind battle/interrogation’ scene.

    Really enjoyed Ingrid Oliver in this too. Osgood definitely feels more fleshed out after this. The Doctor’s “I’m a big fan” feels well earned.

    Lots to ponder on. The Doctor has had “a month from hell”. I’m presuming this is a compressed month from his time perspective. A month for him in which he tried to contact Clara 120 odd times. Hmmmmm.

    #46379
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    Remember, remember the fifth of November,
    Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
    I see no reason that the Gunpowder Treason
    Should ever be forgot.

    I think I’ve mentioned before that, as a child, I was more likely focused on November 5th than Halloween. Ostensibly, it’s the date the UK celebrate the triumph of Protestants over Catholics by ritually burning an effigy of a man who wanted to reverse that dynamic.

    Or it was. Even before I was born it seemed to become something else. A surly resistance against authoritarianism. Because authorities really didn’t like us building bonfires that could get out of control. Even if we turned out to be good at it and stood about, as families, baking our potatoes on a huge conflagration we kids had erected on a public space.

    Guy Fawkes will always be ‘A Penny for the Guy’ but the effigy we built and threw on the fire transmuted over the years. For much of my youth it was Margaret Thatcher. And Reagan. Briefly Major or George Bush. Blair. Dubbya. Brown. Cameron.

    It became the night of sticking your fingers up at the authorities who tried to tear down your bonfire and you built it again. And again. And so a stupid celebration of one potential theocracy over another just became a symbol of sticking your fingers up at authoritarianism.

    So, to remember the 5th, you need V for Vendetta. Originally a comic book, and then a movie, I’ll always direct people to the graphic novel first and foremost, but I’m one of those who still love the movie as well.

    A sprawling tale of a ‘1984’ style fascist Government gaining power, and an individual who stands for anarchy, for freedom and ultimately for Vengeance against them. It was astonishing work in the 80s but I think the movie, though not having the weight of multiple Plot lines that benefited the comic, ultimately conveyed the same message adapted to new times.

    Seek out the movie, or the graphic novel, but Remember.

    A few reasons why I love the movie:

    People of the Nation, please attend.

    It doesn’t quite match the mad lordly satire of the comic, as V addresses his audience as the faithful staff to his employer, but this is pretty good, and we get a glimpse of Bollocks girl.
    v address

    Bollocks girl was a symbol of youthful rebellion in a few panels in the book. She’s wove into the film a bit more as a major piece in the Domino effect.

    Valerie

    The single most emotive episode in the original book, which is pivotal to Vs and Eveys rebirth.
    valerie

    #46264
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    I’m afraid I struggled again for music this week, but I thought the pub might be a good venue for the odd bit of poetry. Let’s give a big hand to Attila the Stockbroker (more info), whose recent collection ‘The UK Gin Dependence Party’ should win an award based on title alone. This is from way before Doctor Who returned, but seems oddly appropriate:

    They claim their planet’s dying:
    that soon it’s going to blow
    And so they’re coming here – they say
    they’ve nowhere else to go….
    With their strange computer voices
    and their one eye on a pole
    They’re moving in next door and then
    they’re signing on the dole…..

    Asylum seeking Daleks
    are landing here at noon!
    Why can’t we simply send them back
    or stick them on the moon?
    It says here in the Daily Mail
    they’re coming here to stay –
    The Loony Lefties let them in!
    The middle class will pay……

    They say that they’re all pacifists:
    that doesn’t wash with me!
    The last time I saw one I hid
    Weeks behind the settee…
    Good Lord – they’re pink. With purple bumps!
    There’s photos of them here!
    Not just extraterrestrial….
    The bloody things are queer!

    Yes! Homosexual Daleks
    And they’re sponging off the State!
    With huge Arts Council grants
    to teach delinquents how to skate!
    It’s all here in the paper –
    I’d better tell the wife!
    For soon they will EXTERMINATE
    Our British way of life…..

    This satire on crass ignorance
    and tabloid-fostered fear
    Is at an end. Now let me give
    One message, loud and clear.
    Golf course, shop floor or BNP:
    Smash bigotry and hate!
    Asylum seekers – welcome here.
    You racists: emigrate!

    ATTILA THE STOCKBROKER
    6 May 2002

    #46263
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @mudlark

    Was it a Koestler coincidence, or are you telepathic?

    Synchronicity? Hmmmmm. More like anticipating that Peter Harness (previous recipient of the Dennis Potter award) would bring forward the sub and metatexts that I thought I’d seen in the Episodes (and perhaps more importantly in the reactions to the episodes). I honestly didn’t expect him to be so direct though. While I’m recuperating I may write a bit more about the series to date.

    @winston

    Glad you enjoyed the mural. Agree with you both about the Supermarkets attitude.

    #46184
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @arbutus

    Yes, in the absence of a handy memory worm and/or timespace travel to collect one, a handy vat of Mind Bleach is an essential when looking at right leaning papers comments sections.

    Cheap and nasty:

    mind bleach

    Luxury Mind Bleach:

    beer mind bleach

    #46183
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @missy @lisa

    I was a bit confused by the comment about deleting this episode because the Series DVD was on its way. Isn’t the release this week Season 9 Part 1 (Episodes 1-6)? Part 2 (Episodes 7-12) is released in December right after the finale.

    I think a single Series 9 complete box set isn’t released till next year.

    #46175
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @arbutus (I really want to try that Pumpkin Stout) @purofilion @whisht @juniperfish @blenkinsopthebrave

    Thanks all for indulging an old idealist. I made the huge mistake earlier of reading a few online reviews. ATL all is pretty complementary. BTL – oh, dear. The Daily Telegraph had comments that made me ask for the mind Bleach.

    Anyway, on a lighter note (and a reminder of the kinder, slightly bonkers side of our National Character). I was in Whitehaven and had one of those random ‘blue plaque’ moments that can give me a bit of a boost. For anyone not aware, a Blue Plaque you find attached to buildings usually because at some point a person of note was born, lived in it for a while, or died in it.

    Mostly they’re quiet and discreet, but occasionally people get creative. So I’m making my way haphazardly from one side to town to the other on foot, enter a small square and come across the house that Jonathan ‘Gulliver’s Travels’ Swift lived in as an infant (he sometimes claimed to have been kidnapped as a child and forced to live there, but he was a notorious fantasist).

    Isn’t this brilliant?

    #46159
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    I appear to have picked up a nasty chest cold so I might be lurching around having odd thoughts. My temperature is all over the place and I have that ‘bloaty head’ syndrome.

    Just a random thought on the Flag, the iconography does resemble ISIS, but the content is a three fingered Zygon hand with a sucker in the middle. It did bring back memories of the ‘Hand Mines’ in a way that’s been bugging me.

    Finally worked out what it wás and, coincidence or not I quite like this thought that they are both ‘hands that harm’. Top marks if you get the reference mid reading.

    “Not to go on all-fours; that is the Law. Are we not Men? “Not to suck up Drink; that is the Law. Are we not Men? “Not to eat Fish or Flesh; that is the Law. Are we not Men? “Not to claw the Bark of Trees; that is the Law. Are we not Men? “Not to chase other Men; that is the Law. Are we not Men?”

    “His is the House of Pain. “His is the Hand that makes. “His is the Hand that wounds. “His is the Hand that heals.”

    “His is the lightning flash,” we sang. “His is the deep, salt sea.”

    “His are the stars in the sky.”

    It’s the rule of law given to his hybrid creations by Doctor Moreau in HG Wells Island of Doctor Moreau. Playing god. Interesting that the Doctor used his hand to transfer regeneration energy to Davros. His is the Hand that heals. But is it also the Hand that makes and another Hand that wounds?

    #46001
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @juniperfish @pedant

    Just on the question of subtlety of the script, I just wondered if this is a lot more direct because of the reaction to Kill the Moon?

    Some misconstrued that episode as prolife or anti abortion, whereas its clearly pro choice (the choice, and who is empowered to make it being central to the episode).

    I wrote something about it here and maybe Harness has set his sights a little lower this time?

    This level of political directness reminds me of Tom Baker in The Sunmakers, which I rewatched recently. That was like agitprop for the Occupy generation 40 years too early!

    #45998
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @juniperfish

    Tarot card-wise I thought Osgood might represent Temperance (the figure in the card pours two liquids together as a sign of mixing opposites to find balance). And Temperance in the Rider Waite is depicted as a hermaphrodite (a hybrid) angel.

    I actually really like that a lot, Osgood as Temperance.

    #45988
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    Well, I didn’t expect my rant in the pub about my desire for political subtext to be followed by that.

    Upto this point it’s been subtle, but this is definitely where they throw out the sub and scream TEXT in your face. The enemy within. Filthy outsiders coming here and taking our benefits (laughed a lot at that line). A radicalised youth militarising against their adoptive nation?

    Really interesting to see how the next part goes forward. After his abortion thought line in Kill the Moon, Harness is going for broke.

    Liked the uncertainty about Osgood. Nicely played. The idea that Zygons could hold a human form after death was actually covered in the Eighth Doctor audios. They also suggested that prolonged inhabitation of the human form led to loss of identity. They effectively became overwhelmed by the target personality. Nice to see good ideas like that being taken up.

    #45977
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    For fans of stout, can I really recommend the wonderfully named ‘Nordic Noir’ which Weatherspoons are currently selling as part of their beer featival. Wonderful stuff. Kicks the arse of Guiness.

    nordic noir

    #45974
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    It’s hard to believe we’ve reached the halfway point in this series already. Doesn’t time fly when you’re having fun? Time for a half time pub rant.

    Since it came back Doctor Who has worked on a lot of levels with sub and metatexts galore. They’ve got stronger and more subtle over the years, and we’re about to get a two parter by Peter ‘Kill the Moon’ Harness.

    I mentioned that eels would be considered an invasive species out of their own habitat, and this could play into an arc narrative. Because once you start to look at it, this series seems to be going out of its way to be as inclusive as possible.

    When you have Davros espousing his racial purity ethic in an episode, what do a few people on the internet do? They launch flame Wars on Gallifrey Base about Black Kaleds. Cast a deaf actress? Apparently another example of PC gone mad according to some. How fucking asinine do you have to be to think that? Did they not get the joke about the Doctor not speaking sign language? He doesn’t have to because in 50 odd years of time and space travel he’s never met anyone deaf. God knows what these fucktards will come up with when Bethany Black, an actual trans actor appears later in this series.

    So meta for this series? Inclusiveness, possibly and what kind of a society we are and want to be. Do we want to be Farage and Cameron, playing with ever more dicey dialogue about ‘Floods’ of immigrants? Do we want to be Davros? Do we really want to roll back time to the seventies, with its attitudes on race and ‘special’ schools for the deaf? Out of sight, out of mind?

    Fuck that for a month of Sundays. I damn well want Doctor Who to do what it always has done. Show us our virtues and our vices. Be political when it can. I want a society where a couple of consenting lesbians (of whatever species) can share a kiss without being vilified. I want the Rita’s of the world to not have to say ‘Don’t panic’ when they tell someone they’re a Muslim. I damn well want Doctor Who to tell this generation of kids that it’s not your race, your religion, your ability/disability or your sexual orientation that defines you. It’s how you live your life. Looking at the world today, we need a little more love and tolerance.

    If this makes me a liberal, so be it. The alternative is unspeakable.

    #45958
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    Just to mention a film that immediately came to mind with the Highwayman theme of The Woman who lived.

    Plunkett and Macleane. It’s pretty divisive I think because it lapses into anachronistic dialogue and music on occasion. I find it really enjoyable though and it has a lot of people in it who have been in Doctor Who.

    I found this clip, which is dubbed into French, but there isn’t an awful lot of dialogue, as one of the hero’s Faces the Tyburn knot. A good illustration of how public execution was entertainment.

    Standouts in the film are Ken Stott who is a mesmerising villain, and Robert Carlisle. Believe it or not, before Eccleston was cast in 2004, he was the top of my dream list to play the Doctor.

    #45953
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    You know, the mischievous side of me looks at the picture of Ashildr dressed in a similar way to Clara’s mum (excellent spot by @kharis) thinks of the bootstrap paradox, and wants to suggest Clara gets physically changed, has to swap clothes and ends up stranded back in time, where she stops a man being run over by a car, resolving her unwarranted guilt feelings over her failure to save Danny. Love blossoms, etc. A child is born.

    Essentially this borrows heavily from the Red Dwarf episode Ouroboros in which Dave Lister realises he is a bootstrap paradox.

    LISTER
    The in-vitro tube, the one that Kochanski’s got. The frozen embryo – it’s me! At some point after the baby’s born we must go back in time and leave me under the pool table at the Aigburth Arms. We wrote Ouroboros on the box to explain! I’m my own father… and Chris is my ex-girlfriend and my mum!

    CAT
    You should write a letter to Playboy, bud. I bet you anything it’d get printed.

    #45942
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip @purofilion

    Let off, only because you’ve posted sense above and beyond….etc.

    #45940
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @denvaldron

    Is that why the audience seems to be going away? The ratings this season have been between 2/3 and 1/2 of previous seasons. I don’t think this is explained by changes in television

    I invite you to make whatever point you have on ratings in a blog, setting forward whatsoever point you wish to make. Simply because it’s not the first time you’ve made a point about a spurious Audience Report. Tiredly making the point that ratings mean a damn needs a point. What’s the way forward?

    I’ll anticipate it. Because with the statistics (and historical perspective) you love, I will present the opposite argument.

    I guarantee you. It’s pretty easy.

    #45936
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @plainolddave

    There’s. One. Dr. Who. SERIES

    I agree. There is one serial called Doctor Who. It’s split into Seasons for its first twenty odd years and then series after that.
    You seem to have such a problem with this concept, and, you know, everyday reality, that you have become a poster of interest. Especially because every post contains a factual inaccuracy for us to dither about.

    Çan I strongly recommend that anyone who has a tendency to engage with this poster cease. We know the score by now surely?

    I’ll discuss the situation with our new friend tomorrow by PM. Intermediate posts will be deleted and will never have existed. I don’t care how much typing you did.

    #45389
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    You know, as Sam was laughing and joking before his death I was mentally writing a comment along the lines of “I bet that’s not the first time Rufus Hound has died on stage”, when what happens? The Doctor nicked the line, the bugger!

    Tonally a lot different from the first part, which I guess was the intention of getting Catherine Treganna to write it. She seemed to be channeling Neil Gaiman, who I think would have approached this commission with a similar approach.

    I’ll probably write a bit about the touchstone references to his Sandman mythos and immortals when I have the time, but they are strong. Just to say though that I really enjoyed this. I don’t know Maisie Pond from her other work and was a bit bemused by the hype last week. I thought she was splendid in this however, and it looks like she will be back. A good character piece, which touches on a lot of previous arcs (leaving companions behind) in a new way. Ashildr knows the Doctor is the one who runs away. Reckon she’s met Missy?

    #45375
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    As ZZ Top got a name check in The Girl Who Died, and did a cameo in Back to the Future 3 (along with the theme song, Doubleback) a song from them.

    No matter how much alien tech they contained, the sonic sunglasses are surely a boon to the cosplayer because they look like…

    #45374
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @fatmaninabox

    Loving the theory that Back to the Future 3 Clara was a Claricle.

    Is Keith Lemon still actually employed by ITV? The world is a mad, bad place.

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