Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
25 January 2016 at 22:57 #5047425 January 2016 at 22:33 #5047125 January 2016 at 22:13 #50469
@jimthefish I noticed the overwhelming hate of Moffat, Matt Smith and the strange giddiness to see Capaldi leave on that site, which I found all of to be absolutely bizarre. Is everyone on the Guardian over 70 with an IQ of 99? Wow, intense haters and die hard old Who and Torchwood lovers abound, and their opinion is fact in their minds, that is made very clear. Glad we have the Forum, that comment section on the Guardian is depressing. That crowd even thought the 8th Doctor’s movie was not that bad, and thought last season was a mess. I can’t imagine agreeing with people less than I agree with that crowd. Wow.
25 January 2016 at 19:47 #50465@jimthefish Thanks, you have calmed my nerves. Nice defending at the Guardian BTW. Had never looked over one of their articles before, but saw you fighting the good fight in the comments. Well done.
25 January 2016 at 19:09 #50462Sorry all, here is were the original comment was: http://www.cnet.com/news/steven-moffat-final-season-of-doctor-who-showrunner-in-2017/
The link I included above in my earlier post was the one the commentator listed.
25 January 2016 at 16:43 #50456I’m not up on British politics, only because I spend my time focusing on my own country that has been digressing into a plutocracy (bordering on totalitarianism) police state for a few decades now. I saw this post from a comment on a news article, please help me to understand how much of this could be true?
“He did not quit. His contract was not renewed. As recently as November, he mentioned he was doing 13 episodes in 2016, and that he had top sci-fi writers lined up for the new series. Unfortunately, the BBC has huge austerity cuts, due to the current government.
Just five days after firing BBC2’s controller and placing BBC1,2, and iPlayer under one exec with “creative, editorial and strategic” control over all programming, it’s been announced that Doctor Who’s Steven Moffat will be let go after fulfilling his contract, and that there will be no 2016 season of Doctor Who. Expect Peter Capaldi’s contract to not be renewed after these final episodes are aired in 2017. This comes just months after Moffat announced there would be a full 2016 season, and that he was bringing in world-class sci-fi/fantasy writers whose names “would make your head explode”.Thank the Conservative Party’s short-sighted austerity for the BBC’s budget cuts. After all, why produce a world-class show for an international audience, when you can do “Simply Come Dancing” on the cheap?! No cuts for them, unfortunately…
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/19/bbc-controller-bbc1-charlotte-moore-bbc2-bbc4-kim-shillinglaw. ”Because if any of it is true I’m going to be sick.
25 January 2016 at 16:06 #50455@missy I agree, the thought of Capaldi leaving is too much. Can’t even fully process the thought. Maybe he is enough of a true and deep fan to hold on through the new writer? Maybe he will have pity on us and soldier through it? Fingers crossed.
25 January 2016 at 06:26 #50443@puroandson Please give my love to your mother. 💛
25 January 2016 at 06:20 #50442@ichabod Well said as usual: “After that, maybe it’s time to turn and please the much less risky, less exciting, less rewarding (for me and people like me, in this at any rate) viewers who want something more solid and consistent, particularly those who’ve stuck with the show through the wilder ride we’ve had with CapDoc. Hardly anybody can *live* out on the edge for long periods of time, so change isn’t just inevitable: it’s necessary and good. Some of us may not stay on board; but the ship needs to sail new seas (or maybe old ones, but just not the one we’ve so enjoyed, for a while”
So true, “times change, we all change” and “we have to keep moving” and we may not be aboard this run, but we have season 9 and all of the Christmas Specials on the shelf, no matter what season 11 turns out to be. 🙂 I like that.
25 January 2016 at 06:13 #50441Thanks @ob-wan @ichabod and @puroandson. I must admit I did enjoy the banter, mostly because it was banter between intellectuals. 🙂
Here is a good article on the oncoming Chibnall. http://www.cnet.com/news/steven-moffat-final-season-of-doctor-who-showrunner-in-2017/ It’s good to hear he is a true fan, understands it’s a family show and respects the work that came before him. Maybe there is hope.
I still find it hard to believe we have a whole year without Doctor Who. Maybe the BBC will be kind and give us a summer special, maybe a past journey of the eighth Doctor? That really is wide open, plus without having to ask Moffat or Capaldi to do a thing. They have a great actor for the part and can simply tell a tale from his regeneration. It’s only fair that Mcgann gets a chance at good writing, especially since he was put through THAT movie. The BBC owes the eighth Doctor at least a special and that would hold us over.
Or how about releasing all of the old lost episodes on BBC and PBS? In ORDER.
The hardest part about the news is thinking there will never be another Moffat Doctor Who Christmas Special. All of the Christmas episodes during his time were pure magic. It does feel like the BBC announced that Christmas is cancelled for 2016.
It’s going to be a long year.
25 January 2016 at 03:47 #50434I know, let’s talk about Doctor Who news! 🙂
25 January 2016 at 03:14 #50432I thought I was tiresome going on about the future of Doctor Who being one of predictability, trite drama and bombastic yawn moments under Chibnall, but honestly the trivial discussions over your DEM and the use of “reboot” is far worse. I will stop beating myself up now for the most eye rolling portions of this thread, the honour is clearly not mine.
Oh my stars! I am cranky over this news. Maybe I should get some sleep and some wine before I post again.
24 January 2016 at 18:12 #50415Thank you for a positive spin @jimthefish
After some sleep and reading all the people who have confidence in Chibnall’s ability I feel a little better. Maybe this is just the acceptance stage.
My nagging fear is I AM judging HIS work, and ’42’ and that movie they called Doctor Who have always stood out to me as beneath Doctor Who, I know he didn’t write the movie, but 42 was always right up there on my just skip that episode speech to new fans.
Also, Torchwood is unreasonable, bombastic and boring, plus Broadchurch put me to sleep. This is my fear, the fear he hasn’t produced anything that held my interest, except the episodes during Amy and Rory’s time, which gives me hope. His run may be wonderful, but I doubt I will have something to personally look forward to. It simply doesn’t sound my cup of tea, but it may be a brew that meets most fan’s needs and standards. Maybe it will even attract a new fan base to our wonderful show? That would be a lovely outcome. I just fear that the one show I look forward to will become like every other show. I spent a decade not watching TV because nothing really interested me. Then all of a sudden there was Doctor Who, Sherlock, Firefly and even Downton Abbey and Big Bang for certain moods. But even the other shows I just listed, even though they could hold me, could not get me excited enough to wait for each episode like Christmas, and I certainly would not have got on the internet to write about the others.
It’s just so disappointing. At my age little things that feel like Christmas are few and far between. On the subject of Christmas, who is going to make the Christmas Specials so magical? My whole family young and old love the last four, they are up there with ‘A Christmas Story’ and ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ for all of us. Even my family who never watched Who makes us watch ‘The Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe’ ‘The Time of the Doctor’ and ‘Christmas Carol’ every holiday at least twice. I’m sure ‘Husband’s of River Song’ will now be added. I’m just bummed, it’s like the BBC announced that there will not be Christmas in 2016.
I will strive to be more positive after this. I’m just still in the unhappy stage of acceptance.
24 January 2016 at 08:33 #50394No, I refuse to accept any of this. How can the BBC replace Moffat, who is brilliant, with a writer who wrote for that ridiculous second rate spinoff? The only episode I know of that he produced was the only episode I have ever listed on this forum as not worth watching. It can’t be just me, ’42’ was an embarrassment and the only episode I say to skip. This has to be a joke. Why not ask a writer who wrote a great episode like ‘Vincent and the Doctor’ or even beg Russel T. Davies back, or get creative and ask Orson Scott Card. I don’t know! What about the guy who wrote ‘City of Death’ or ‘Age of Steel’ or ‘Father’s Day’ or ‘The Doctor’s Wife’ or the episode about the Snowmen? Come on! Not a Torchwood writer; that show was just sex, drama and predictability. The writer who contributed ’42’ should only be asked for an apology for boring Who audiences everywhere. Sorry, I know I’m usually positive and polite, but I am disappointed and just plain shocked.
No Doctor in 2016? Seriously? I’m going to hibernate until 2017. I am just really unhappy right now.
14 January 2016 at 16:02 #50135Yikes, I meant Moriarty, not Mycroft. Goodness I stay up too late. My thought was that Moriarty left a very insidious computer virus that goes off and threatens to destroy the entire world by releasing nuclear war after he died.
14 January 2016 at 07:53 #50127@puroandson Hello! Hope you and your son are doing well…in my prayers daily. 🙂 Yes, Moffat somehow managed to create nothing but masterpieces this year.
14 January 2016 at 07:46 #50126Just a thought…. Mycroft left a very insidious computer virus that goes off and threatens to destroy the entire world by releasing nuclear war.
28 December 2015 at 07:52 #49754This is from an old post long before we knew River was coming back, and the original back and forth on this topic can be found in the Silence in the Library thread. I still feel the exactly the same, and so why rewrite? 🙂 @tardigrade and others wondering how River will find a way to project from the Library, well, I think we see it with Tasha Lem:
“Some of my ideas center around Smith not being River’s Doctor, considering my theories in the above comment #40818. Smith’s Doctor did say he was going to the Singing Towers with her that night, but like in the above comment, he was not sporting a new haircut or new suit. The 11th did think it was an important trip, but it could have been important for another reason and became their special spot. In the Library she didn’t say it was her first time at the Singing Towers. I think SitL is an incredibly important episode on so many levels, and in my view we have yet to see half of it seen through. After watching this two-part episode again I am positive River was merely uploaded and CAL is Clara. I don’t think River’s Doctor is Smith alone, I truly believe it’s a later Doctor, possibly the current Doctor. I believe Tasha Lem is River reaching out from the Library through another mainframe. Tasha does mean birthday and Lem means owned by God or Great One. I also think it’s interesting that the new Doctor has styled his TARDiS as a library.”
So, at the very least we see River has created a Papal Mainframe for herself. Which would also explain why Tasha could withstand the physical Dalek attack, since it is a Tasha avatar controlled from the Library.
27 December 2015 at 00:42 #49708@frostfair “Welcome! Most welcome! Be happy here. ” 🙂 Agree
Agree with you all! It was wonderful! So smart, funny and hit hard in the feels. What a season! All around, from start to finish, the best Doctor Who series ever!
27 December 2015 at 00:34 #49707Doctor Who Christmas Specials are always fantastic. Honestly, you don’t need to be a Doctor Who fan to enjoy “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe” or “A Christmas Carol” since they are extremely well-done and better than even most classic Christmas movies. The two movies have become classics even in my family where I am the only Doctor Who fan besides my son. This episode went over just as well with my family…..until I started crying and saying, “NO, NO, NO, YOU CAN’T TAKE HER THERE!” I actually started sobbing and swearing that I hate Moffat, and then realizing that: NO, I really don’t.
Also, I needed to explain to my niece that River is simply uploaded and therefore could be downloaded, so my tears were silly, since she really isn’t dead, and time can be rewritten, already had been. That cheered me up, especially since the top of my Christmas list was that the Doctor’s new companion would be River Song. Still bummed that it looks like that will never happen. Especially since the chemistry between the two was indeed incredible. Well, can’t have everything.
19 December 2015 at 02:06 #49508I am so very late to the party. Two weeks of Nutcracker is the partial reason, the other is that I was in a state of being blown away. Both Heaven Sent and Hell Bent were stunning achievements. The scripts, the directing, the lighting, the acting, the costumes, and the MUSIC! I swear I heard musical moments/a nod from old Who in both episodes. I have not read any comments yet, simply due to Nutcracker, but I wanted to add my compliments to both episodes. Have a cast party tonight then Star Wars, but I fully plan to read every post this weekend. Can’t believe how excited people are in the States over Star Wars when every movie is going to be anticlimactic after Doctor Who season 9. It was pure brilliance. I label Moffat the Shakespeare of the art medium known as TV.
My only pondering is over the Dalek in the Cloisters. A Claricle? The Claricle issue is not at all resolved, and I did wonder if Clara failed to rescue a version of herself in that moment. Just adding my usual strange pondering. 🙂
30 November 2015 at 09:16 #48300@juniperfish Wow! Your tarot line up ended up exactly right from 0 all the way to 22. My assumption is we are cycling through again. Back to zero, back to the Fool.
30 November 2015 at 09:06 #48299I’m not going to read anything on the thread yet, because I’m not yet ready to hear anything but that the episode was perfection. Perfection from beginning to end.
So well written, designed and executed on every level.
The music!
This episode was a gallery of genius.
24 November 2015 at 05:27 #47690SO, WHERE IS THE DINER SCENE?
23 November 2015 at 22:44 #4767423 November 2015 at 22:37 #47673Dear Puro/Melissa,
I just cried when I read your letter. It’s too terrible to fully digest. ):
This Forum will not be the same without you; all your wonderful posts, intellectual insights, musical notices and kindness.
Another horribly sad day for the Doctor Who world.
Much love to you,
J. Smith
23 November 2015 at 18:58 #47653<span class=”useratname”>@avaris</span> I had similar thoughts (look on last week’s episode ‘Sleep No More’ thread) about Bad Wolf giving Clara as his guardian angel.
@ichabod Agree about the companion limitations, humans and alien, because at least two alien companions have died in sacrifice.
23 November 2015 at 18:43 #47651@juniperfish Awesome tarot summary!
@drben I have wondered, since the Doctor knew it was a trap, if the key was actually to the Tardis. Darling Rigsby had time to paint his tribute…guess the plotters haven’t found the box….or they have the wrong key.
23 November 2015 at 18:26 #47648A little love for Puro everyone, she is back in the hospital and needs our warm thoughts. Remember, she was in pain when she wrote that post. Puro loves the show and this Forum and I’m sure it’s eating at her to be part of any disruption or hurt here. I think she is just taking a break here because of her illness and stress. I’m sure she will be back. (:
This episode was excellent and agree with @supernumerary that it was well crafted.
Ashildr convinced herself, like so many in our government and lives, that she was right, and RIGHTEOUS, which is a dangerous road if a person has power, especially over life and death. Davros, Hitler, and even the Doctor himself, most dangerous line of thought was believing themselves righteous and judge of life and death. A slippery slope indeed and one filled with darkness, fear and chaos. I thought it was very poignant that Ashildr sentenced the man to death for theft, considering the Knightmare’s former profession. My doubts on her becoming the Nightmare Child are getting less frequent. Her access to time travel was all that was missing, and clearly she is in league with people who have that access. @iusedtobethedoctor I think Ashildr is meant to be not be liked, she is set to be a great enemy of his own making. @bendubz11 “I mean, having all those hormones floating around in you, forever? That would be a living nightmare.” Yeah, the Nightmare Child in my opinion.
Excuse me for all the tags, but so many good points, theories and thoughts!@avaris YES, YES! I loved your entire post “First, Clara is always selfless, willing to sacrifice herself for others ( i.e. Asylum of the Daleks and the Name of the Doctor). It might be due to her empathy or her lack of connections with others. In this episode, it is more of the latter as Clara doesn’t even mention anything about her family before her death. Clara experiencing the passing of her mother and Danny Pink has lost her sense of “home” and has become detached to the world like the Doctor. Clara, like the Doctor, are people that are so emotionally scared by the loss of close ones that they use adventure as a form of escape to their cruel reality.” Plus, “One of the most notable thing is Clara willing take risk to save Rigsy, her companion. Both, the Doctor and Clara have the duty of care towards their companion.”
@lewis97 “As I said, it could just bear no significance, but earlier on in the episode Mayor Me explains how the Lurkworms work to The Doctor – “The light is a telepathic field. It normalises everything you see, places it within the compass of your expectations, your experiences.” & @frobisher “Maybe she didn’t actually die as we think we saw her do. Maybe she is merely in stasis, or has regenerated” I also agree that Clara Prime has met her end.” I was wondering about the telepathic field THE ENTIRE time too.
@mudlark “If, as several people have suggested and discussed, the Clara we have seen over the past three years was not Clara Prime but another Claricle in a loop with no beginning and no end, what might this mean in the convoluted time line of the Doctor?” Was also wondering about that. How do we know the Clara that died is Clara Prime? His timeline isn’t over, so how would she just stop showing up in it? Are we to assume there is a Great Intelligence Prime and once dead will no longer terrorize the Doctor’s timeline? @jphamlore “some sort of future scene with Jenna Coleman as some sort of Clara is inevitable.” I think so.
Also a total sucker for hidden places, and loved the old world look with it’s soft golden glow from the worms.
@akhaten @geronimo & @aclevername Welcome!
@tommo “…a solid thread of prejudice/refugee/acceptance, or lack of, of others despite differences etc. running through it. this episode, in my mind, was no exception. the reaction to Rigsy in the trap street was clear evidence of this. one citizen even said ‘we don’t want your kind round here’, or words to that effect. i realise that the alleged murder allegation was the obvious surface narrative but there is a clear mirroring there of instances of historical western racial prejudice in that phrase.” Something that I have really enjoyed about this season was it’s lack of fear and diving into these issues with heart. It was also brought up in Turn Left, which in my opinion is Doctor Who’s best episode on the subject to date
@geoffers “…he could have asked her to give the tattoo to him, as he would (presumably) regenerate. i’m surprised that option wasn’t written into their farewell scene.” Yes, I wondered about that. Or, why Ashildr who hates living on doesn’t take the death for herself. @miapatrick “I agree with @purofilion that Rigsby was a character easy to care about. He was clever, nice and interesting in his first episode, and now with added baby, clearly a good father”
Still not sure where I stand on Ellie RAVENSWOOD being dressed as Clara’s mum, especially in control of perception filters of different natures. Ashlidr looked terrified to find it was Clara….maybe beyond the fact she just liked her.
@lisa “I noticed the difference between the 2 raven deaths too.” I think there was tremendous strength in the simple action of facing death with bravery.
@todeledo “acting was magnificent.” YES! (: And so was the writing!
@countscarlioni “Is anyone else concerned about the Doctor’s ponderous performance in Face the Raven? The Doctor was given assorted, big clues that he was walking into a trap” Yes, part of that suspicion for sure and not just the denial of death stage.
@lisa “How did Ashildr/Me know to say to the Doctor in ‘The Woman Who Lived’ that Clara
would die on him and also! blow away like a puff of smoke? Now isn’t that a bit
weird? Anachronisms!” Time Lords involved? @jphamlore “The use of a lock that fits a Tardis key and the demand for the Doctor’s confession dial indicate that the ones who made a deal with Ashildr are the Time Lords. ” It does seem that way.@starla “If so, my theory is that the little yellow glow we see in Face the Raven as the raven enters Clara’s body could possibly be this energy flashing or initiating” Great bonkerizing. (:
@drben “So, because I knew that this episode would end with Clara’s death, it kind of removed the dramatic intensity of the moment.” & “Finally all the risk-taking caught up to her, and she accepted it with aplomb and dignity. It was beautifully written, shot, and acted.” I agree, and am still wondering if it was because of the foreknowledge or like @bluesqueakpip pointed out something feels off that the death scene felt it could have had a little more punch.
@ichabod“It was stressed, in fact: note the figures passing, paying no attention as Clara stops to face the Raven. She’s the true modest hero, about to die but not calling attention to herself. Just the Doctor, self-made and in command of herself, meeting her death. While he watches — they chose, brilliantly IMO for Capaldi to stay in the background, still and obscured by darkness, so that Coleman has our attention in that scene, and even in the preceding scene. He’s there as a helpless, mute witness, as we sometimes are as someone we love leaves us. Gorgeous.” Beautifully put. (:
@jammiedodger @juniperfish puts it perfectly! The final card in the Tarot is considered ‘The World’ which has lead me to believe Gallifrey will return. @phaseshift Has an excellent thread on this episode plus his call on the Hierophant Tarot. His threads are always worth a full read. @whisht “Now, the entry for the Hanged Man in the book I have is “A sacrifice must be made in order to gain something of great value” Which makes you wonder what his reward must be? ‘The World’ the ‘The Lovers’?
@bluesqueakpip “I think that while Sarah Dollard probably didn’t inend the reading, a script suggesting that a female companion is more fragile (more breakable) than a male Doctor and therefore should not have tried to be Doctor-like has Unfortunate Implications written all over it.” If it makes you feel better, I don’t see it, but that is because I don’t see this as a gender issue. Clara is fragile because she’s not a Time Lord. There are very few companions that the Doctor watched die, and they all died in sacrifice. Rory “died” saving the Doctor and Adric saving the world, and both were male. Very few companions actually died, and even less in front of him. The greatest displays of strength are sacrifice, unconditional love and forgiveness. Clara in the end pointed out that it is the Doctor who was weak and needed healing.
I loved your thread by the way, and completely agree that the death was beautiful, but suspicious.
@mersey I really see Capaldi as meant to be more unpredictable and to keep us in question if he is a good man. He is not meant to be charismatic, but layered, tired and hard to reach. I still feel he is preparing to become the Valeyard. The next few episodes may push him into it. @nerys “When he asked her what the point of being a Doctor was, if he couldn’t heal her, Clara replied, “Heal yourself.” Yes, he is broken and the “shard of ice in his heart” is growing.
@blenkinsopthebrave Like your story concept. @carrieanne “Part of me wonders is Clara even real? Did the doctor dream all this? Was he in a virtual reality by the time lords” “How far would this dream go back for him?” “We kinda assumed Clara was the one in a dream, what if it was the doctor, and now he’s waking up.”What if this is all a dream? @miapatrick “And yet the arc has been subtle, that is, I’m still not sure what it is…” Still not sure if we are seeing an alternative reality.
@devilishrobby The Shadow Proclamation could certainly have a hand somewhere.
@mirime Creepy thought that Davors, The Time Lords AND Missy may be involved. Yikes.
@juniperfish “Different Docs for different folks” Yes, one of the best things about Doctor Who. All the Doctors are fantastic, yet different people relate and like different doctors. Like @timetot not into Matt Smith’s Doctor. My family adores that Doctor universally, even though the rest we disagree on.
@pedant “Oh, and someone needs to explain privity of contract to Ashildr” LOL! Loved your thread.
Loved this episode. Great posts everyone. (:
22 November 2015 at 03:44 #47473@tommo Oh yes! I think River is still linked to Clara.
If you go with the angel theory Rasmussen is like Angel Bob. If you go with what we’ve seen, it’s just part of the story.
21 November 2015 at 16:40 #47424@lewis97 Like this. Makes sense as to why we would say goodbye to Clara.
I feel everyone’s pain on waiting to see the episode. We get it at 3:00 AM on Sunday. :-\ I’m almost always asleep when it comes on.21 November 2015 at 09:01 #47401@spacedmunkee Dang! Just looked up your link! Good one! Like The Great Intelligence and Clara wrapping around his timeline intersecting and the Raven casting it’s shadow and protecting at the same time.
@lisa Agree, just not ready for another Amy and Rory or Rose moment. Too sad.
21 November 2015 at 08:59 #47400Along the Tarot theory. We have not seen the ‘Star’ yet, which could mean Clara’s ending has a positive side. The Star traditionally proceeds Judgement and World cards, and follows the Tower. Unless tomorrow is the Tower, and if that is true, it’s going to be a devastating episode.
21 November 2015 at 08:47 #47399@purofilion Wow! That will be intense. I am worried about tomorrow. Haven’t read any of the spoilers outside of here. What is TL?
21 November 2015 at 06:43 #47394@bendubz11 Thank you! Had fun with it. The River quote seems important. Possibly they are so deteriorated that they are blind, so they don’t need to cover their eyes. What happened to Nagata? Did we ever see anyone get killed?
21 November 2015 at 06:25 #47392“What if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us? When these things occur and are held to be true, the time will be upon us. The Time of Angels.”
“Bob: You’re not talking to me sir. The Angel has no voice. They stripped my cerebral cortex from my body and reanimated a version of my consciousness to communicate with you. Sorry about the confusion.” ….like Rasmussen.
“OCTAVIAN: They don’t look like Angels.
AMY: And they’re not fast. You said they were fast. They should have had us by now.
DOCTOR: Look at them. They’re dying, losing their form. They must have been down here for centuries, starving.
AMY: Losing their image?
DOCTOR: And their image is their power.”Sort of makes sense, doesn’t it? Now if you watch the video and see the sandmen then like Amy you have something in the corner of your eye, a Wheeping Angel. Look at the Angels in their deteriorated form, still an Angel. Why the quote from River about dreams?
My only problem with this theory is that the sandmen are blind. Maybe purposefully blind? But how about that for bonkerizing? 😉
21 November 2015 at 05:52 #47390And for all the haters…. LOVE MOFFAT! He’s a genius! Trolls are haters because they are jealous of his genius and insecure as heck. The writers for Doctor Who have all been incredible. Russell T Davies, Terry Nation plus all the amazing guest writers are all to be praised not trolled upon.
21 November 2015 at 05:48 #47389@janetteb Brilliant notice on Asylum not the Daleks!
@bendubz11 I really hope it’s Luke, I love that character. Something other than a human girl. Even an older woman, just not another girl.
21 November 2015 at 05:34 #47388The video footage, like CAL, the dream man in Amy’s Choice, or the dream crabs, took information, and used it to create a world that felt real, this time in the form of movies, from the dream centre of their minds. So much of the “scary” parts could have been twisted versions, like in a nightmare, of Clara’s journey to the centre of the Tardis. The goal to create something that needs to be seen to use it’s power, like a dream crab or wheeping angel.
21 November 2015 at 05:11 #47387Look above him in the meat closet. Looks like a dream crab, then a glitch, then it’s gone.
21 November 2015 at 05:04 #47386@purofilion “…how the Doctor sees Clara -or is trying to and possibly failing – and we also saw the camera slide away from the Doctor and return, quickly and sneakily as if we’re not sure exactly what he’s thinking.” Good point! The bug on Donna’s back doesn’t seem that Dalek Caan would send, he was in favor of the Doctor. Maybe the Great Intelligence or Davros, but it still seems like there has been both a malevolent force following the Doctor’s timeline and the helpful force. Possibly the Great Intelligence and Clara in the timeline explain, but it seems bigger, like who guided Clara? River? Bad Wolf? River is a daughter of the time vortex, and Missy was chosen by the time vortex, maybe River and Missy are unknowing minions of the time vortex/Bad Wolf? Pretty sure the “Moment” was part of the Time Vortex power. Clara being brought to the “moment” that changed everything was by permission of the Time Vortex.
@bendubz11 yes, the theme, since the Library, and then driven home in ‘Last Christmas’ has been the an altered reality.
Like your Utopia reference. 🙂
@ichabod Thank you! Yes, so excited for this weekend! I’m setting aside everything Sunday to watch it. I hope there is a relief in Hell Bent.
I’m seeing the tragedy of this season fueling a hate “a shard of ice in his heart” that pushes him into becoming the Valyard.
The way the people turned to dust in ‘Sleep no More’ made me think of the dream crabs, same with the altered reality. And what is above the Doctor’s head in the debriefing room?
21 November 2015 at 02:05 #47377….and “Why did CAL know what face to SHOW Donna before HER upload, and who sent the bug on Donna’s back?” was another major typo. Will try and slow down and proof before I push send next time. :-\
21 November 2015 at 01:52 #47375Sorry, lots of typos, since it was a fast stream of thought. This is how the sentence should read: “‘Sleep no More’ may have been a clever way to get the universe thinking about a quantum locked being through a televised production. “The image of an angel” if you remember with AMY Pond was enough.”
21 November 2015 at 01:30 #47374@catladymeow Good criticism. Yes, some of us, like you, understood the episode just fine. I was also never confused by it, just didn’t really move me in any kind of way. Appreciated the brave attempt, and always like a good layering of ‘Matrix’ like themes, it just never pulled me in.
@jphamlore & @ichabod I agree about the Moon tarot card, it makes perfect sense.
@bluesqueakpip & @purofilion. Yes, this episode is driving home the plugged in Clara theme, and the theme of not knowing the difference between reality and fiction. Donna was also forced to find her way through altered reality and layers of truth, in the ‘Library’ and in ‘Turn Left’ Why did CAL know what face to sow Donna before er upload, and who sent the bug on Donna’s back?
I still hold to the my bonkers Library theory, but I also see another theme, all the way back to Bad Wolf. Missy/Master and the Universe/Time Vortex/Bad Wolf have been coaxing and guiding time in the Doctor’s favor. If you look at the long history of Doctor Who we see that the Time Vortex/Bad Wolf considered the Doctor AND the Master its chosen children. It makes sense that the Master is a tool in the Universe/Bad Wolf’s protection of time and the Doctor. Clara is part of that protection, like Donna, chosen to protect the Doctor. The Great Intelligence and Davros striding in through the Doctor’s timeline to create the opposite and to create chaos. Hi did the Great Intelligence and Davros go back in time? Heck, how did Colony Sarf? Never explained, but keeps happening. Technically the Doctor should be able to hide in time, but not if his enemies can follow him. I think ‘Last Christmas’ like ‘Listen’ and ‘Silence in the Library’ hold many keys to the story arch, and ‘Sleep no More’ confirms it. In all of them we are never sure of reality, like the world CAL creates, or the dream crabs; they essentially pacify the death of ‘reality’ and make us question reality itself. Bad Wolf was the ultimate bootstrap paradox, and I feel it is still going on, first through Donna, and then through Clara. “I create myself” is what Bad Wolf says. Like the story in ‘Sleep no More’ or the question of the Claricle births.
‘Sleep no More’ may have been a clever way to get the universe thinking about a being a quantum locked being through a televised production. “The image of an angel” if you remember with Any was enough. In my opinion, Morpheus has dream crabs inside feeding, the rest is a story. “Don’t trust anything you see” as the Doctor said in Last Christmas, and his glasses are proof he needs help looking past the obvious. He needs to listen more, see less. The biggest wild card in this: River. She is always trying to bend time to save the Doctor at any cost. Also, Ashildr, she is problematic, and am more and more sure she will become the Nightmare Child and the death of Clara and the Doctor s the destroyer of world’s will drive him into he Valyard next season.
Also, important to note that ‘Sleep no More’ seemed like dream version of Clara’s time in the heart of the Tardis. The creatures, the corridors, the pathway are very much mirroring that….like it’s her dream in part
In no way do I see ‘Sleep noMore’ as a stand alone, I see it as confirmation of the reality altered theme. I have a lot of thoughts on all of this that could take up pages, but I will end here, since it’s dinner time. 🙂
17 November 2015 at 17:35 #47196@purofilion @arbutus @soundworld @janetteb
Beautifully written about the Doctors and the music, all of you! What a lovely way to start my morning. 🙂
Okay proof I’ve been working on Nutcracker too long. I’ve always seen Drosselmeyer as Doctor Who, so much so that in our Nutcracker he dresses as the Doctor and leaves in what could be a blue door with windows, or the TARDIS. I’ve added many touches over the year that people who don’t watch Doctor Who would never notice, like he brings bananas and uses a sonic to stop the clock from going crazy.
Okay, so here is my absolutely bonkers theory, which is proof I need a break from Nutcracker:
Actual storyline of the real Nutcracker:
Eccentric Inventor/Magician/Scientist is invited to a Christmas party. He brings mechanical dolls to entertain the children, but to also tell a story to Clara to make her start to understand, and eventually stops time in the room where everyone freezes so he can procure a magical Nutcracker he must give to Clara, and only Clara, because only she can look past appearances and have a heart strong enough to battle the Rat King. He gives it to her, leaves the party, comes back in the middle of the night in what the audience is never sure is a dream or reality, shrinks Clara down to rat size and she defends her Nutcracker and her valor breaks him from his wooden spell, he turns into a real boy, they fight the Rat King together, win and are transported into the Land of Snow. They are rewarded by going to the Land of Sweets and visiting dancers from many lands. He returns her to the sofa in her living room leaving the audience wondering g if it was a dream or not. Sound familiar?
Yep, all I see is Doctor Who in this now. The theme of Clara being in the dream state but accomplishing a saviour only she can perform, is chosen to perform.
Visions of Sugar Plums dancing in my head! LOL! Need a holiday from Nutcracker, clearly!
16 November 2015 at 19:46 #47131@phaseshift Yes, you gave me another reason to rewatch the episode. I really loved the ‘Rings of Akatan’ from the first watch, and was shocked that other people didn’t enjoy it. I begged people to give the episode a second watch and look for the layers, artful moments and beauty of it. So, in light of that, I will go watch it now with a very open mind.
16 November 2015 at 19:39 #47130@bluesqueakpip Yes, I agree, I love that Doctor Who takes risks. In all artistic endeavours, actually in ALL endeavours, it is best if we are given permission from others (and ourselves) to fail. It was a courageous attempt and may possess some of the bones to build an awesome story arc, like @miapatrick ‘s great idea. 🙂
16 November 2015 at 19:31 #47129@purofilion Your review of ‘Sleep no More’ is so eloquently expressed, and thought provoking that I will certainly give this episode real attention and not throw it into the part of the mind I threw ’42’ which I never bothered to rewatch.
Even on the first watch I think there was a very interesting theme expressed at the core of this episode, even if it was hard to stick through to the end. I’m also sure it would not be easy to fill this week’s spot after such and epic premiere and first half of this series. Also, I was hoping for a whimiscal episode, which isn’t fair of me I know, but Doctor Who usually has at least two per season, and they have become scarce. One of the things In love about Doctor Who is the variety and it’s ability to go from a mind blowing visceral episode, to an intellectual journey and then seamlessly into a fun and whimsical episode….and sometimes all of these in one episode! So I admit I wasn’t set up to be as forgiving as I usually am, so now I will watch it without my prejudice expectations. 🙂
16 November 2015 at 19:14 #47128@janetteb YES! Agree, I love the serious episodes and the fact that Doctor Who is not afraid to dive into the hardest questions, be rich in complexity and deliver a speech like in last week’s episode, but this ‘Sleep no More’ really was placed in the wrong spot in the season. This season is epic and fantastic, but we have not had a fun and whimsical episode. The kind you rewatch on a tough day to smile, or that your kind reenact in your yard. ‘Robots of Sherwood’ was great for that, and I was hoping for at least one whimsical ride before we headed into Clara’s departure…which I fear will be heart wrenching.
Yes, Clara’s dark and serious clothes seem purposeful.
16 November 2015 at 05:30 #47057@erebos Okay, I tend to glaze over streams of colourful metaphors, so can you give some examples of what it is about this episode that has you so impassioned? It started out a little predictable, but I felt it ended strong, and the speech had me in tears. What are your reasons, in the form of examples as opposed to a stream of cussing, for disliking it so deeply? Curious.
I understand the pain of having few friends who watch DoctorWho or want to discuss it.
-
AuthorPosts
